Injection mold parting line patch surfaces

#5

Hi,

The mold tools are very systematic, generally you would have to go back and find the source of the problem. Sounds like it could be the imported product. Fix up solutions will make life extremely difficult with updates or changes and would not recommend.

I have learned not to use the full sequence for mould split and sometimes knit the required surfaces and trim against a core or cavity insert. On simple tools I don’t use it at all! or just some of it to verify core and cavity detail.

#6

Hi Resu,
you can upload a video to your own Youtube Chanel then insert a link to that here.
That way almost anyone can see it.
It could also be sent to your reseller for passing on to ZW as they may not have access to Youtube.
Also I agree with Matt re getting the geometry totally fixed BEFORE starting the Mold process.
This applies to ANY imported geometry to be used for subsequent modeling.
Cheers - Paul

#7

OK…Here is my video on my Youtube channel…It covers only one problem. More videos are coming later.

Patching surfaces disappearing: https://youtu.be/_9LajI0BQSI

First time putting video on Youtube. Please, let me know, if you could open it and if it was OK.
Thank you

#8

Hi Resu,
your video works fine.
My immediate response is that the surfaces you have added may be reversed which could explain your problems.
Set your filter to face and selct the pink surfaces, RMB and Reverse them.
When done,
retry and I think it should all work.
Let us know if that is the case.
Key to remember is that ZW3D is a hybrid modeller. It does not impose rules on you so you can make non sensible shapes and surfaces that might be impossible in Solid modellers.
Cheers - Paul

#9

I have done the mold again today…reversed normal on all the surfaces, which were pointing in -Z direction…so now all of them point in +Z

I have also put all the manually made patches in the PATCH subdirectory, before executing “Autoparting Surface” command. Everything OK till the moment I execute the Trim command.

No change! Manual patches all disappear when executing TRIM command

Pictures are attached1All patches present before Trim command execution 1Patches missing right after executing Trim command 2All patches present before Trim command execution 2Patches missing right after executing Trim command all patches have same direction +z....all patches moved to Patch subdirectory before autoparting all patches have same direction 2 +z....all patches moved to Patch subdirectory before autoparting

#10

Hi Resu,
probably the only way we can help you is to look at you shape file after you have applied the patches.
If it is confidential, then you might PM one of the responders and ask then to look at it.
Cheer - Paul

#11

Hi there again.
I do not think it is confidential.
Here it is:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/7k9hraag63x3egy/6-Examle1-6.Z3/file

#12

Hi Resu,
looks to me like the patches are not sewn to the shape.
image
Maybe revise all your surface addins feature by feature which might make management easier or Use Sew and select the surfaces and shape you want to boolean. That might be a bit tricky to know what is connected to what.

Please report back.
Cheers - Paul

#13

Hello there, again
I did the exercise 1 mold construction again, this time trying to saw the surfaces in.
But as you can see in the video, the small window patches cannot be sawn in, because the surface to be sawn in is not created yet and the only thig I can pickup to be sawn in is the part solid…so even though I have issued the command to saw it in and selected solid, nothing else could be selected thus sawn. Besides sawing works only on the surfaces(not solids).
So, when I did the large surface patch consisting of 2 small corner surfaces, then the medium sized half round surface, which is vertical and the main opening surface, there was a choice to saw it …I actually saw these all 4 together…but that was done in all my previous trials and it did not work, just as it did not work this time. I have made a video of entire process, so you can see.
Oh, by the way : only in previous video and this one I am sending today I have moved the manual patches from the main tree trunk of the history to the subdirectory called Patches. Prior to that I have made the mold several times with no moving these patches from its original location and the result was always same…it just doesn’t work!
I have video guide and text guide, but they were made in one of the previous versions of the software(I believe in 2018). So the menus are somewhat different…but I believe, that I am doing everything right.

Here is the ling for today’s video: https://www.mediafire.com/file/v8ticthcpr3naet/2021-03-31_23-48-08.flv/file

Please, let me know, if you were able to download it and see it.
Thank you

#14

Hi Resu,
The video is great - allows us to see what you do an do not do.
There will be other people with much more experience in Mold than me.
I design not do mold any more. I leave that to people like you!
I do not know why you do NOT choose the Shape in this place.
I would expect it to be the shape you want to sew to.
image

Cheers - Paul

#15

Hi Resu, I am also Plastic Mould designer and think I can show you what is wrong, but I am running ZW3D version 2020 and cannot open the file through your link.
Perhaps make it a NEUTRAL file please.
One of the things I saw on your video is that when you pic the SOLID to create all patches, you showed that the SPLIT LINE was included in the patch list----this should not be included for patching as it must stay as split faces for the Shutoff faces.
I cannot confirm this without trying on your model.

Thanks
Alan

#16

Cowboy…here is the picture, Patch-vs Boolean explaining…

#17

Hi there,Alan.

Thank you for the offer of help.

I have analyzed the file again and there is no parting line loop included in the list of Patch loops…I think I have mentioned it in the video…but it was my error. The loop 0 is not parting line but one of the small round holes.

I checked one by one all the loops and none of them belonged to parting line.

Anyway. If you think you can solve the mystery, I would send you the file with the part I did on the video.

But I do not have any experience with data exchange in (any format) neutral format, which brings over the history and all.

So, if you know, what is needed, please, let me know, which format should I translate the file in and also, if there is some specific setting I should observe, to make sure that you receive everything…not just the solid.

Thanks and cheerful Easter to you and to all in this group…

#18

Hi Resu, I don’t need your history. Just export it as a ZW Neutral. or Parasolid, or STEP. anything will do.
I will try it out to see if I can get Patch faces

#19

OK, Alan. Here it is. 4Plastic Cover.stp (3.9 MB) different formats. Hopefully you will be able to use one of them…
Well, actually when I was trying to upload it here, it gave me error message with names of format permitted to upload to this site. So I am leaving here a link to another site(Media Fire), where these 4 files are residing (All same part).
Permited uploads
https://www.mediafire.com/file/oh101h3da1jluzn/Plastic_Cover.stp/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file/qox9b6jpidszfqc/Plastic_Cover.vxn/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file/zi5gtr7soer5zam/Plastic_Cover.x_b/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file/lhaotgadkwm2cqf/Plastic_Cover.z3n/file

Thank you for your time…

#20

Hi Resu, I tried to AUTO create patch surfaces and ended up with the same result as you.
I have got pictures attached to show one option that I think is missing in the process of “Trim Workpiece”

Maybe someone who also uses this command can help us with “why” the patch surfaces are not included in the Split option!

Alanresu-cavity RESU-CORE resu-trim-options

#21

HI Resu,
I don’t have 2021, I have 2019
I have same problem in past and I found one solution in 2019 version
If you have surfaces which is not created with command patch or parting surface are not considered in core cavity trim, before you executing trim command you have to use edit parting face attribute command select manual created patch/surface and assign them parting face or patch, all surfaces are either patch or parting surface
now trim core cavity, It works for me
I hope it works for you also

#22

Thanks Mr Patel, I edited the self created surfaces to be parting surfaces, then moved them over to the PATCH column. Trim Workpiece worked first time, dividing Cavity and Core with inclusive patched shutoffs.

Alan

#23

Hello there again, Today is already Wednesday, 7.April.

I am not familiar with all the commands of the software as I am only learning. When you guys say you edit parting face attribute…what exactly do you mean? I have shown in my above example that I have moved the patching surfaces to the column ( subdirectory of the history tree) called _Patch.,. where all the automatic patches created by the software are located…that did not have any effect.

Can you give some small example of how you edit the parting face attribute with an explicit description. please.

Now I have downloaded today the version 2022-30 day license. I have tried again. I was able to patch up the 2 rectangular windows of the part. I did it by this method (and it might be functioning also in the previous versions-I have to try yet):

  1. click on the Patch command

  2. click on the shape

  3. that causes the unassigned 3 inner loops being displayed in the window called Loop (it show Loop 0, Loop1 and Loop2-these 3 loops are the parting loops of surface edges, which the software can see, but for some reason cannot patch automatically-so you have to do it manually.

  4. Loop 1 (is one of the 2 small windows)-I erase it and then select manually the same boundary…and the patch surface is created. It is made up of 4 smaller section surfaces, which I have joined by “Merge Faces” command into 1 smooth surface. It is assigned a subdirectory in Time Tree, called “_Patch_1”

  5. I did the same for the second patch surface(Loop 2 in the list of loops of the Loop command) in the other little window. The patch surface was created and the subdirectory “_Patch_2” was created.
    (continue in next post)

#24
  1. when I came to the big Patch surface(made up of the 4 surfaces) of Loop0 I could not use the same method. Because here are 4 separate surfaces, which have to be sewn together. The patch command doesn’t have that option(in version 2021 and 2022 - I do not know about the older versions). So I have to use create N-sided surface(under the Free Form…Basic Face menu)…But using this option, rather the Patch command does create patch surface in the tree, but doesn’t create the subdirectory(which I expect), called “_Patch_0”.(as in the case of the other 2 patches). And that causes a problem again…that particular surface is not recognized as a patch(even though it is listed as a patch in the Time Tree-but doesn’t have the “Patch)” subdirectory. So when I execute the Trim command, the 2 blocks(Core and Cavity) are only a set of surfaces(not solids) and this particular surface(made up of 4 smaller ones) is missing…The other 2 small rectangular windows are OK.

Now consider this: if I was a small company and I bought the software and accepted the job from some other firm. And then found that I cannot do it, because of these kinds of problems…what would happen??? I would be out of business in no time! Because the word gets around…

I would expect software “manufacturer” of this caliber would have a quality control team, who checks most everything and is responsible for not catching any and all errors, before the software is released into the engineering community.

It doesn’t throw a good light on a company, especially knowing, that the changes to the software from year to year are relatively minor.